Muse. Magician. Mentor. Marketer. Creative. These are the most common words that precede an introduction to Tamika Auwai. Tamika is the CEO of Orisha Creative, AND the creator of The Nurture Matrix™, an evergreen nurture marketing framework that’s revolutionizing the way Master Coaches approach email marketing, generating millions in additional revenue along the way. 

I brought Tamika on to Talk about nurture marketing vs sales marketing!

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How cultivating an email list can increase your profits in the long run with Tamika Auwai

We've talked a lot about sales marketing as kind of one of my favorites, like let's convert our customers to paying customers, but nurture marketing is incredibly important. So Tamika, I'm so glad you're here. I'm getting chills just thinking about the conversation that we're gonna have because nurture marketing is incredibly important.

It is important and you know, it's just a little bit pre-sales, right? Like it's actually the thing that's gonna make your sales work so much better. So I'm glad to share and dig into it too. 

What is nurture marketing?

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I know people like different styles of nurture marketing, so I'm kind of excited to hear and learn about your style, that you like to share and teach to other people. So, I don't know, where do you wanna start? Where's the best place to start? You're kind of the expert in this. You know what, why don't we give people a little context, context is everything for me. So why don't we give a little bit of a, like, what the heck is she talking about? Nurture marketing.

Love It. Why does it deserve a whole podcast episode on its own? So yeah, so nurture marketing, you know, well, first I wanna tell you what a lot of folks think nurture marketing is, right? Cause you talked about the fact that on the show there's always conversation about sales and how do we convert?

And obviously sales and conversion are really important. If we're not making sales, we don't have a business. Now, nurture marketing tends to get the definition of being any content or any kind of messaging or marketing that you put out that is not directly asking for the sale. So we think, you know, sales messaging or sales marketing is all about that call to action.

Go ahead, book, buy, whatever it is that you need to do to exchange cash money. And we think, Okay, well when we're not doing that, then we are nurturing. And that is true, that is true, but it's a very surface level. That's a very surface layer sort of definition. In my world. Nurture marketing is what is supposed to happen between someone becoming a new lead and then becoming that, you know, becoming a client or someone that, you know, enrolling. Right? The nurture marketing aspect though, the part that I like to really dig into is the reminder that when someone joins your world, joins your list, joins your community as a new lead on that journey to becoming a client. It really is a journey. And so, nurture marketing and the kind of the distinction that I like to bring to the table is that nurture marketing is designed to take a new lead and have them become a new client. It is designed to take your customers or your clients along a buyer's journey, a journey that we all go through no matter what we're buying. It looks different depending on what we're buying.

But we all go through this when we are making a buying decision. We go on a little journey, making that decision whether or not we're gonna put out our money and, and invest, right? And so your nurture marketing is not just the place where you're sort of devoid of call to action. Rather you are inviting your prospects to move closer and closer and closer to making that decision of working with you.

And that's why if we are really thinking strategically about nurture marketing and going beyond the fact that we're just putting any old thing out there, you know, while we're not making sales, while we're not making sales call to action, we miss an opportunity, right? By being a little bit, having a little more context and being a little bit more strategic, we start to think instead about how can I nurture in a way that has folks lean in, lean closer and become ready to buy, maybe even before I make that official sales invitation.

Yeah. I think that's how, you know, you have a good nurture sequence when they're, they're like waiting for that email that's like, give me the thing to buy, or they seek you out and are asking like, how do I get this? Or how do I work with you? Like, that's when you know you have an incredible nurture sequence, right? 

Exactly. That's the one, that's the one that, you know, a lot of our clients report, it's like, Oh, the cart wasn't even open, and we have people like trying to get on our calendars or sending us dms and saying like, When is this gonna open? Or is there something I can do in between? Right. It shifts the game a little bit because sales is so much about kind of outward marketing and, and you know, putting yourself out there in order to have someone say yes or making that direct invitation and nurture marketing works kind of the opposite.

It's kind of drawing people in, having them, I call it the lean in factor, right? Having people sort of lean in, lean in, lean towards wanting to work with you, being ready to join a wait list or you know, again, kind of reaching out and saying, Hey, when's this thing opening? Or what can we do in between?

Yeah. And I'm sure you guys listening have heard of like the no, like, and trust factor. I've mentioned it so many times before everyone talks about it. So it's like the nurture sequence is that extra opportunity to get them to know you, to like you, to trust you, so that they are saying like, Okay, give me the thing.

Are Nurture Emails All About Me? 

Like, I'm ready to do this with you. Everything that you said, you know, is great. So let's, you know, let's dive in a little bit to nurture. You know, when I think of nurture, just kind of like a surface level, if I'm not really getting strategic about it, the first thing that pops into my head is like, Oh, I have to like to tell them my story or about me, You know? And I think that might be what people are thinking when they think of a nurture. Like, Oh, it's just some emails to tell them all about me. What would you say to someone who kind of came to you saying that? 

Yeah, well, your story is important, certainly by people that we know and like, and we, you know, know and like people by hearing their story and finding that kind of resonance, that commonality, whether it's aspirational or just, you know, relational, right? And we have to remember again that if we want folks to be ready to buy, they have to go along their journey and their journey's not about you, Right? Or your story, their journey is about them and their story. So where there is place to certainly weave in your story, what the nurture, the approach to nurture that I'm, you know, will go to the map for, and I'm really passionate about is centering your, your ideal client's experience and telling stories. Like yes, you can certainly, you know, speak to what has happened in your experience and, and, and what your expertise is, but really bringing them back to what's going on for them. How does this make sense for them? What's the conversation that they're having in their head around why they can't get their problem solved? Cuz I promise you it's not about you and your story and your experience.

Like that's not the conversation. It's not, we join this person's list and I wonder what, you know, brought them here today. Certainly they're interested and curious, but they wanna know, like everyone wants to know what's in it for them. How is this gonna help me? And most importantly, you know, that know, like, and trust factor that you talked about, that trust in my experience is really developed when you can show someone else that you really understand what they're going through, that you understand their problem or what's coming up for them deeper than they even understand it themselves, and you're able to present to them a new vantage point or a new perspective that they hadn't considered before. That's where the trust comes in from a leadership perspective, right? There's obviously different layers of trust, right? The way we trust our parent would be different from a coworker, than a boss, than a story might hire. So, you know, we have to remember that there's different ways that trust shows up. But in the business world, you know, trust in my experience, again, it really shows up as like you are an expert who knows everything that's going on with me, and you're able to constantly show me like these different blind spots that I might have that are keeping me sort of cycling in my problem versus on my way to solution. And, you know, the trust gets built up there.

I love that. Sharing the new perspective, that's like what really just stood out to me in that moment. And we talk about this when we talk about like, building our about page on our website. Like, it's not really about you, right? And I liked how you mentioned just kind of about helping them see that you understand, I think that's an opportunity where we can use our story to, but making sure it's tied to what they're thinking about, what they're struggling with, what they're searching for, and that they can see like, oh, she's been through this, but it's always with your customer in mind, right? Like whatever story you're sharing, like it has to be something that the customer's gonna relate to 1000%.

 A quick rule of thumb, like if you're creating nurture content or nurture email or something like that, and you notice that like every other sentence starts with I I this, I that I, I i, right? You're not flipping it in the way that it really is resonating. There is a way, there's absolutely a way to weave in, you know, your story and your experience, but have it completely center your ideal client. And that is just so much more powerful than it being kind of the, you know, Tamika show or Krissy show, right?

What are your best tips for getting qualified customers?

Yeah. They want something different. Yeah, A hundred percent. And you can even do that, I use a switch. So if you have to start something like a little story off with I, but then midway through you switch it to you so that you're speaking to your customer, that's like in marketing copy copy y'all. If you aren't using the you statements so that your reader really sees that it's about them, then you need take a look at your copy. 100% Love it. Okay. Let's see how are there tips or things that you can recommend to make sure that you have qualified prospects that are, you know, we've talked about this, like ready to buy, raising their hands, seeking you out, wanting to work with you, Any special tips you can give us in that department? 

Yeah, so again, it's like, because this is all so centered in who your ideal client is, the best thing that you can do for yourself is really do your job to understand them intimately.

If you've worked with some clients already, that means like really deep interviewing them to understand not just, you know, what they're, where they were at the moment of being ready to buy, but what, what was the sort of story that led up to that? Again, if we're going through this process and we're really wanting our nurture to help people become ready to buy, we actually have to start to think about them well before they're ready to sell or sorry, spend their money. We have to kind of like take a step back, right? Because again, in this buyer's journey, we have these different stages of, of buying and we, you know, we start out with an awareness stage where we're kind of just, you know, sort of aware of the problem. We're not even necessarily aware of a problem, but aware that something's not going right. We've got all these symptoms kind of going on and we're like, Why is this happening to me? But we don't know that there's a problem that we can name, and then we kind of move on to becoming more problem aware, right? And we're kind of, ooh, okay, yeah, I do have a problem, and we start to seek out solutions. How might I solve this problem, right? So we go through, you know, all the way to the point where we're in decision making mode and we're ready to buy. So the best thing you can really do for yourself is think about the conversation or kind of, if you can get firsthand research, great. If you have to use a little bit of intuitive, you know, guessing until you have evidence, that's fine too. But you wanna think about like, what's the conversation my prospect might be having when they're in the awareness phase when they've just got all these weird symptoms happening and they don't have a problem that they can attach to it.

What, what's that look, What are they thinking about there? What's kind of, what's, what do the symptoms look like? You know, what might not they, what might they not be aware of, right? And then, you know, think about in the exploration phase when they know they have a problem and they're starting to seek solutions, what does that look like?

What does that conversation look like, Right? And just kind of map out what are these conversations that our people might be having and we can start to create content to address that, right? A lot of times we think about nurture content and again, we think of this surface level definition. So we're like, well, let me just create something to stay visible and valuable, right? Those are kind of the two Vs we hear a lot- stay visible and valuable before we make the sale, right? And we just have to flip that to understand that visibility, right, there's a certain aspect to that, right? You have to, you know, you wanna stay top mind, but the, the lens that we put on value value isn't necessarily like, create a bunch of tips and tricks and, you know, give them things to do in between. Rather the, the value comes in again, when you can have your people think about their problem in a different way. Because when they start to think about their problem in a different way, it opens them up to becoming ready for that solution that much quicker.

So really just focusing on the buyer's journey and that conversation they're having in their head and doing your best to come up with content, you know, to address that, that's gonna change the game for you. I'm gonna totally put you on the spot and ask if you have an example of putting that in a different way. Yeah. So let's think about if we are a health coach and we are a health coach or a weight loss coach or something like that, who our special sauce is that we help people release weight without going on diets, right? So we have to think about, you know, our, our ideal clients, they wanna release the weight, but they probably think because of everything that is in that industry, they probably think that a punishing diet's gonna be needed or some kind of like radical life change is going to be needed.

So before we, they, that particular customer starts to look for help for their, you know, to release weight. They're in the awareness phase. They might be going through things like, you know, just trying every diet under the sun and never seeing results or losing a bunch of weight up front and then, you know, gaining it all, you know, six months later. So in the awareness phase, they might not be understanding at all at that point that like, the reason that they can't keep the weight off is because diets don't work, right? Making broad statements, I'm not a health coach, let's just put that out there, right? But they don't know yet that it, the reason that they can't keep the weight off is because they aren't meant to be on a diet in the first place.

So we have to start to create content that is going to really speak to that and sort of, you know, think about an email that's like, you know, five reasons your last diet didn't work, right? That's helping them shift their perspective around the dieting, right? So it's messaging like that. So we're going through like, what is that conversation they're having in their head?

What are the sort of sticky points or things that they might not know about? How can I speak to them so that they shift their perspective? We wanna do that along the journey. So that's on the awareness end when we start to get into sort of the next phase when they're more problem aware, now they might be like, okay, maybe, you know, maybe this diet thing is not actually what I should be doing. So, okay, if it's not the diet, then what is it? Like, Is it, you know, working out all the time? Or is it, you know, having a diet that's not so restricting, right? They start to think about what are the different ways, If, if having a punishing diet isn't the way, you know, that prospect might be thinking, Okay, well what are the other ways At that point then that coach who believes in, in, you know, that you don't need a punishing diet, they're gonna start to say, Okay, well let's create some content now around why exercise alone isn't gonna be the thing that's going to, you know, have you release the weight or how perhaps exercise alone might even be damaging or create another cycle of unhealthy eating, right? Or how, you know, certain diets that seem really flexible are actually really bad for you because maybe they're too high fat or, or something like that. So we're gonna start to do educating around the next sort of kind of conversation that our prospect's having and we're doing that all the way along the buyer's journey.

And actually most folks, you know, again, since we spend a lot of time talking about sales, they're probably aware of how you do that kind of thing in the sales conversation, right? You're usually busting objections and doing a lot of that when you're wanting to, you know, close, but you just wanna back it up a little bit and think about what's, what's the conversation that needs to happen a little bit earlier that would have the person be, have less resistance when you actually make that invitation? Does that make sense? 

What is the secret to creating content that converts?

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And so is that kind of the secret to creating content that converts or do you have another?

No, that's, that's absolutely it. It's that intersection of getting really clear on, again, the experience that your, your prospects are having and picking out those core messages that they need to hear over and over again as they move along their buyer's journey. We call them core nurture themes in our world, right? So figuring out what these core nurture themes are along the buyer's journey, and then creating content around that. And I guess there is one little other secret, The other little secret is that these core nurture themes need to happen on repeat. We have this idea in this content driven world that we always need to be creating. It's like ABCs always be creating and we need to come up with like 365 different, you know, post or content ideas, one for every day of the year. So we put ourselves on this like content creation treadmill churning out all this messaging and that leads us kind of down this road of trying to come up with new and novel and creating all this stuff.

But really when we identify what the core nurture themes are, those are the things that need to happen on repeat. Because again, until your prospects like really get this, they're not gonna, they're not gonna make change. So giving them, you know, again, if we go with our, our health coach or coach there, giving someone a sample meal plan to use for a day or something like that, that's not necessarily shifting the perspective that they need to have to actually go and hire. It's giving them something to go try and kind of actually leaving your prospects cycling in their problem a little bit more while they go and try to figure out how to solve it on their own. Cause they think if I could just stick to this one day meal plan that I was given, I won't even need a coach, right? When the reality is what they need to hear are those same pillars over and over again about the fact that, again, you know, diets don't work and why not of course. And the fact that, you know, having these other ways of releasing weight aren't the best, you know, best way to do that, you know, to release weight. And then when you get to the sales side of things, that's where you're gonna be talking about, you know, why you as that particular weight loss coach is going to be the best solution, right? So when we get into the sales place, we're really, you know, talking about why your solution is the unique best purpose, you know, everything else, right? But we want to, we wanna really have that on repeat so that our people get it into their bones and then they make that change. Giving them all the other stuff isn't necessarily gonna cut it. 

Do I need to create new content all the time?

Yeah, love that. And I love that you said this is gonna help us get off of that content creation treadmill, because I think that is certainly for me, the exhausting point of thinking of, gosh, I have to come up with all of this new stuff. 

No, you have to keep repeating yourself over and over again. Not everyone is gonna see your post every day. Not everyone is gonna read every single email. Not everyone is gonna listen to every single podcast or read every blog post.

And so you have to continuously do repetition. I mean, I've had multiple people come on and talk about copywriting and email marketing, but everyone also kind of has their own little twist on it. And you've shared some great valuable content here, but also like we need to keep the message going, right? So what would you recommend in terms of like, you have these core themes, how often are you cycling them through? Like, do you have a recommendation, like if you have five core themes, like you should be doing like one every nine posts or once, you know, once a month or every quarter, you're kind of cycling through, What's your recommendation on that? 

Yeah, so like, like a lot of things with, with marketing, it really depends on sort of industry and audience and what you're offering and everything else. Within our framework, the nurture matrix, we look at a 90 day cycle, just kind of taking the average and looking at sort of what's happening in online sales in general across the board, not just in the coaching or online course creating space, but it kind of takes someone, you know, or it can take folks up to like 90 days to kind of make a decision, you know, and again, that's gonna vary depending on how complex the problem is they're trying to solve what the competition's like in that, in that industry. But, you know, for all intents and purposes, a quarter made sense. So when we think about a quarter, then we also think about, okay, well what's, what's sort of the minimum that you wanna be, you know, connecting with your audience a week and the minimum you wanna be connecting with your audience, you know, you know, every single week is like once a week. So from that perspective, we came up with the framework that's like 12 emails over 90 days, and we have some folks who implement it as like two emails a week over six weeks instead. And, you know, it can look a little bit different. We've got folks who have like 20 nurture themes because it's more complex, you know, decision making process and everything else. But I think, you know, kind of coming up with 12 themes or aiming to come up with 12 themes and thinking about, you know, connecting with your audience at least once a week, kind of putting them through a nurture sequence that way generally is, is our recommendation. And then you can repeat that up to, you know, four times a year. It works nicely in the calendar as well. So kind of once a quarter you're taking folks through this nurture sequence. And I wanna point out that this doesn't mean that you never create, you know, other content. Certainly if you have a podcast like this one, you know, you're gonna also have some messaging that's like, come and check the next podcast episode and everything else, like this particular sequence that we're talking about or how the nurture matrix works, it's like there's a, it's an aspect of nurture marketing and certainly there are other pieces that you can layer into it, but at minimum this is what you wanna be doing. You wanna be identifying what, what those core nurture themes are, and minimum getting them out to your, especially to your new subscribers at least once a week for their, you know, kind of first 60 to 90 days of them being on your list. 

And then you can repeat them or, you know, you can start to switch it up a little bit, but like, we want that initial sort of runway to have everyone's heads and hearts sort of oriented towards solving the problem. And another piece I just wanted to, to bring in there real quick is that when you are thinking about your people, and you mentioned not everyone sees everything and, and you know, no one's opening every single email, there's also the possibility that they received an email, you know, in week one and then in week 13 they received the exact same message, but everything, and they read it both times, but everything in their experience has shifted over those 12 weeks, right? 

So we have to remember that even if someone's received a message already, things are constantly changing in our lives every single day. So your prospect who received the message on day one is going to be different than the one that receives it on day 91. Their whole entire, you know, situation could change. And that receiving that message, again, could be that catalyst that has them sort of lean in. It's like, yes, now is the time to buy. And that's really what we're, we're creating around. 

Yeah, a hundred percent. There's been so many times where I'm like, I've heard that same thing and now I'm just at this different place in my life or in my business, you know, and, and I know that it's happened with me with clients before. It's like I've told them this thing and then three months later they hear it from someone else and they're like, Oh my gosh, mind blown. I'm like, Yeah, I told you that three months ago. You know, I'm not saying that. I'm like, like Thank God you got the message right. Even if it wasn't from me, like fine, but, but it is so true. Like they need to hear it so many different times and it's, it might resonate, it might be a year later and it resonates completely different. And that's where, you know, that's where the value comes in and connecting with them regularly. So question kind of for, for my own curiosity, when someone signs up for a freebie, you know, there's kind of mixed things on, and I think this really has to do with personality types because there are other people that wanna take action right away, you know, and I teach if you are really seeking out that person that's ready for that transformation, even when they're grabbing your freebie, like hopefully you can get them to convert a lot quicker, but what would you say your, like if they download the freebie and then I, I know this nurture sequence is kind of like once a week kind of ongoing.

What about people who are ready to buy right now?

Do you do some type of nurture to sales that's like pretty quick after a freebie for the people that wanna take action fast and then those that don't, this is where they kind of tap into this weekly and then it might take, you know, the personalities that are more analytical take a little bit longer. That's where they might take the 90 days. What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, you, you got it. So this whole, you know, the whole premise of the nurture matrix kind of came to be when I was really thinking, okay, it's like in all of these funnels, doesn't matter what the funnel looks like, there is, you know, a small percentage depending on what you're offering in the industry and all that stuff, it could be like as little as maybe 1%, maybe half percent, but like, you know, a small percentage up to maybe, you know, 10 or 15 or I mean 20 if you're like amazing, you know, at, at or just in a, an industry where that's normal, but largely there's only a certain percentage of folks who join your list that, that are gonna be in that real activated ready to buy stage, right? So we can absolutely make a call to action for those people. However, most of us forget about the other, you know, 97, you know, or 80 97%, right? So that's where the extended sort of nurture sequence comes in. That's where the nurture makeshift comes in.

But when folks join your list, I believe, you know, that's the place where you have, they join the list, you give them what was promised, right? You have a little delivery sequence, then you can have a little bit of a welcome sort of into an initial sales sequence, right? You know, so you wanna, I I don't call that a nurture sequence so much cuz in my view it's like three days of nurture is not really nurture.

I call it a welcome sequence. And what we're doing is we're welcoming in those people who are like ready to go right away. And so we take it into the sale really quickly if, if that, you know, at least give them an opportunity. So again, it's gonna kind of depend on what your funnel looks like. But you know, I think of a lot of funnels where it's like you get a immediate download and then they might take you to like a sales webinar or something like that.

Certainly if that's how you're set up, you know, once they get that initial free freebie, heck yeah take them over to get to the webinar for, you know, for sure get them, give them that opportunity to buy or if it's a book, a call situation, sure once they get that immediate thing, it would be, it's almost like rude not to say, you know, and by the way, if you took this in and really spoke to you and you need some help right now, like here's how you can do that. Like in my view that's, it's rude not to do that because there are people who legitimately are looking to get support right away. We just don't wanna forget about the rest. I call that like if, when you forget about the rest in my world it's like having a leaky bucket in your funnel or like having a leak, a leak in there cuz all these folks who demonstrated that they were, you know, that they've got a problem that you could potentially solve, they are either unsubscribing or just like, you know, opting all the way out because they're not getting what they need to actually lean in.

They're getting kind of a bunch of tips and tricks and everything else kind of popcorn content and not really getting what they need to kind of, again, have that lean in factor and be ready for the sale. 

Yeah. I just wanna hit again that the percentages that you said because that is so the truth at a very small percent is ready to buy instantly right now.

And you said, you know, whether or not this was accurate but like 97%, right? Like that's a large, large amount. So don't get discouraged by obviously if nobody's buying, if you have a smaller offer, let's say, you know, $7 to $200 or something and you're throwing them like a simple downloadable and and you're throwing them into a marketing sequence, a sale sequence and nobody's purchasing, like we need to look at the messaging here, but if you have a small percent purchasing, like that's probably good and you really need to focus on your nurture so that you know, you can convert those later. I mean we're focusing on nurture for the next, Sorry, I have acorns dropping on my glass. Got it.

Time of year. This time of year is always the best loud thuds, you know, for the next like five months. We're doing all kinds of nurture before we launch our new masterclass and open up, you know, a new revised program. So it's like nurture is like the long game and you have to be in it for the long game. 

Yeah, Right. Yeah, It really is a long game strategy and you know, I'll be honest, that sometimes makes it easy to, to ignore it really, you know, the, the long game nurture is not as sexy as the, like let's have a sales sequence that's going to, you know, close all the people tomorrow. But the reality is, and those numbers that I shared with you, again, like they are real numbers, which just kind of depends on what audience, what offer pricing. There's so many different variables, but like there are folks out there that are only really converting like one to 2% off the top of their funnel. So again, the other 98, 97, you know, percent, like we gotta, we gotta take care of them and we gotta understand that like it may not be on week three that they're ready either. It really might be, you know, week 12 or you know, week 24, you know, or in your, in your case that you mentioned sometimes there's the super analytical people and, and you know, and again we can't pass judgment, they're just, everyone's in their process. It could be up to a year. And so we really have to be willing to think about our email list as an asset and our content that we're creating as assets as opposed to them being like a sales slot machine. Which, which is what I do feel a lot of folks are like hoping, secretly hoping that that's what their email marketing and what their funnel will do for them.

But it's just not the way that it works. However, if you are wrong and you figured it out, let Krissy and I know because right? Like share that magic magical tip. 

No, and it's true. And I had, I always like when I get, you know, a sale on, you know, one of the bigger programs that we have, I always like to go back and like kind of do detective work and be like, where did they come from? How have, how much have they been paying attention? Cause I can see, you know, what emails they're opening, what freebies they've downloaded. And had someone purchase our big program recently and she signed up two years ago when I did a virtual summit and hadn't had too much, you know, interaction that was basically like the only, she didn't have any other freebies but she had been opening emails here and there, had stayed on our email list and then we released a quiz, she took the quiz, it led her to the masterclass. She watched the masterclass and she purchased. So it could have just been that the timing two years ago, I mean besides the fact that we didn't have this big robust program then, right? Wasn't available. But the timing just might have been completely different. But thankful to the nurture, the podcast that I put out, the emails that I send out, you know, she's been here, you know, somewhat paying attention for two years and boom, there she is.

So, you know, not every single person is gonna take two years, but you do have to remember that like not everyone's gonna sign up on day one. This is the long game. If you're serious about your business, you're gonna have to put in work consistently and it's gonna pay off over time. 

Time. Yeah. The cool thing I wanna mention as well is that the detective work actually gets to be like a really great clue for you about how you can start to sort of modify things as you go, right? We put an initial nurture sequence out and we kind of see how it plays out. But as you start to get clients in and you start to do that work of like seeing where they went, that can give you some intel around, you know, what should I do more of? And or, you know, what's a really great lead source for me?

Like those kinds of pieces. If we have the long nurture game in there, we do, you're right, we have the data to be able to go back and sort of kind of reverse engineer and try to get more folks who are like our ideal in our programs, which I think is really great. One of the things that a team member of ours set up was a lead scoring sort of thing.

So based on the frequency of emails open, we can, we have people like, you know, kind of at the top of the list who are super engaged and we can see them and you know, connect with them on social and like interact with them a little bit more because we, we kind of go through and follow the paper trail and see what they're doing.

So it just, you know, that's advanced kind of moving down the road, but it sets you up to be able to do some really cool things down the line that just help you increasingly connect with and enroll like the right people in your programs, which is of course very fulfilling. 

Love that. Tamika, this has been amazing. I've gotten some great gold nuggets I know our listeners have as well.

I just wanna thank you for being here, for taking the time outta your day to share this knowledge with us and talk to us a bit more about this topic. I want everyone to go be able to go connect with you. So if you wanna share kind of where your favorite place to hang out is, what your handles are, and then you have a free gift I want you to share a little bit about.

Yes, happy to. So generally Instagram is, is our jam. It's where we hang out most. You can find us @OrishaCreative. So that's an easy way to connect there. And then our gift that we have, we have this scorecard that we've created. It's a self-assessment, we call it the Nurture Opportunity Scorecard. And what it allows you to do is to go through what you're doing right now in the name of nurture across email and social media and just start to get present to some areas where there might be gaps or opportunities for you to sort of tighten things up and, and shore up your nurture marketing game. So it just gives you kind of like a baseline to work from and to grow from and to give you some inspiration around how you can start to make some, some tweaks and changes.

 Love that. I'm definitely going to do the scorecard. I know there's always room for improvement wherever we are in our journey, whether we've been at it for a month or seven years or 10 years, like there's always new little things, new little nuggets that we can take in and implement into our strategy. So thank you again so much for being here. This has been awesome. Everyone listening, go connect, follow her on face, on Facebook, Instagram, and get that free gift. It's an opportunity to get some extra golden nugget. So Tamika, thank you for being here and can't wait to chat again soon. 

 Grab Tamika's Freebie here: https://clairevb--orisha.thrivecart.com/intensive-savings/

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